No cutting in during dances, because there is fighting

I found this on Pestiside.com, who in turn found it on Subba. As Pestiside explains it, “For the Hungarian-impaired, this sign from a dive bar in Hajdúszoboszló simply says that cutting in during dances is forbidden due to fighting.”

For those more curious about the specifics of the language, however, here’s a lengthier discussion of the ins and outs of the grammar. For those of you not interested in language, you’re on the wrong blog, and you will want to exit now, because this will make your head hurt very, very much.

Glosses

First, here are some literal glosses for the Hungarian learner:

tánc = n., “dance”

közben = “during”; in the midst of (-ben ending =in; köz = space, space between; there are many related words such as közös [collective; public]; között [between], közép [middle], etc.)

lekérés = “cutting in on”, from le (a verbal prefix that often conveys downward directionality, but isn’t limited to that)+ kérés (“appeal”; “request”; “petition”; “prayer”). I don’t know if lekérés is limited to the context of asking for a dance or if there are other usages, but the big Varga and Lázár English-Hungarian dictionary gives only the example of dance for their gloss of “lekér” as v., “cut in on something”. It's also the only example given by Sztaki's online dictionary.

nincs = v., “there is none” (van = there is; when it’s negated it becomes “nincs” rather than “nem van”)

mert = “because”

verekedés = n., “brawl”; “fight”; “fray” (from the related verb verekedik [v., fight] from which the stem is vereked) (Edit: haha, thanks Richard for the correction)

 
van = v., “there is”

Some discussion of the grammar

Hungarian language has a wonderful thrift about it; often an idea that typically requires a longer phrase in English can be expressed in a word or two in Hungarian. I imagine such a sign in the US might read exactly as Pestiside has explained it in 9 words, but there are 6 in the Hungarian sign. Perhaps this is why my Hungarian teacher calls English a "primitive language."

However, you also may note the subtle difference in meaning between the Pestiside translation and the original. A more literal translation might read: “There is no cutting in during dances, because there is fighting.” The notion of “due to” is generally conveyed in Hungarian with the word “miatt,” e.g. a sign at a shop that reads “Zárva van a technikai okok miatt” (Closed due to technical reasons”). With the statement “verekedés van” (“there is fighting”), the restaurant sign suggests that there have been fights, and they’re a regular enough occurrence that there needs to be a sign forbidding cutting in during the dance. Moreover, they don’t use the term “tilos” which most closely resembles the English word “forbidden” in its meaning. Instead, “lekérés . . . nincs” is used, or “there is no cutting in”.

There’s another notable grammatical point, though. The gerund form of “fighting” in English that Pestiside uses for their translation conveys an appropriate meaning, but it’s interesting that the noun formed from a verb in Hungarian takes a different form than in English, or perhaps more precisely, the noun form of verbs is used in different contexts in Hungarian than it is in English.

There is another verb form in Hungarian (-va,-ve) that specifically conveys a processural idea that is conveyed with the gerund in English. EG: “Még nem kész a vácsóra; most van sütve” (“Dinner isn’t ready yet, it’s now cooking”). [EDIT: As Richard has kindly noted below, however, this is a highly unlikely utterance, something along the line of "Dinner isn't ready; it's in the process of being cooked" in English. And perhaps, as he notes, it is more appropriate to liken it to the English form -ed, but many contexts in which it is used in Hungarian don't correspond with that form in English. I'll do another post on this some other time, to highlight its usage, but common places where one sees this is in the case of shops that are “nyitva” (“open”) or “zárva” (“closed”). It describes something about the state of being.]


The -va, -ve ending is also used in the context also of the manner in which something is done, e.g. “Milyen szeretné a halat, sütve vagy grillezve?” (“How would you like the fish, fried or grilled?”) 

Here, however, the -és,-ás ending is used (in many cases) to make the noun form of a verb, which is typical for such contexts in Hungarian. A good example is the verb “tanul” (v., “study” or literally, "s/he studies"). When making this verb into a noun in Hungarian, it becomes “tanulás” (n., “study”). Similarly, “utazik” (“travel” or literally, “s/he travels”) becomes “utazás” (n., “travel”) and “tanít” (v., “teach” or literally, “s/he teaches”) becomes “tanítás” (n., “teaching”). Thus, “lekér” (v., “cut in”, or literally “s/he cuts in”) à “lekérés” (n., “cutting in”) and “verekedik”(v., “fight”, or literally “s/he fights”) à”verekedés” (n., “fight” or “fighting”).

Verbs that take the form –ik in Hungarian are a special group that are conjugated with –ik in the third-person singular (E.G. "utazom", "utazol", "utazik" = "I travel," "you travel," "s/he travels"). Because the fun of verb conjugations, including those of the –ik verbs, Hungarian dictionaries list the third-person singular form of the verb rather than the infinitive. The verb stem is the basis for other parts of speech, as in this case when you want to make a noun from a verb, and the –ik is removed to create the verb stem.